pouët.net

Welcome to Communism 2.0 - this time it'll work, I promise!

@smash
while youre argument is surely valid, its the fact that creativity/art and profit/success are so heavily tied together these days which disturbs me.
but that is a whole different discussion in itself.

if the world wants f2p and the model works so be it, i dont like the idea very much (or rather, the products it spawned up to now) but at least people are having a choice in what to pay for and more importantly can check out the game before investing.


@gloom
maybe im stupid but you dont exactly elaborate on your reasoning there ;)

as said earlier i dont write all this shit because i want to justify for downloading stuff from the internet. i buy a lot more software these days compared to 10+ years ago but then again i have a lot more money to spend now as well, so its probably not my morale/ethics which have changed.
if i had to take a wild guess it would be that the average income of the "contra piracy" guys is a lot higher than the one from the "pro" guys (not counting hungarians ;).

i just dont feel comfortable giving in to a system in which it is better for the companies to destroy truckloads of medication/food instead of shipping them to the people who really need (but cant afford) it.
</random example having nothing to do with software>


this discussion is endless and cannot be solved here (and possibly anywhere else in that regard), im basically just having it for fun and bring my fucking point across =)
yay to the internets.

whatever it is that needs to come, it does need to come. current democracy system ain't working. some folks call it democracy 2.0, with better transparency and anti-corruption laws.

wysiwtf: game and software demos exists since the amiga/pc era - so you CAN try before you buy. Please don't tell me people pirate games because they want to see if it's "any good" before buying - that's bullshit :)

ps: yeah, transparency in the government _totally_ works. the stupid pirate parties want their right to obfuscate they real names and block video/photo footage of them while they talk about democratic transparency... sheesh.

Yeah, it's unfortunate. In a truly communist society, we all could enjoy producing art all day long and magically we'd all just prosper and live in happiness, but it does not work that way in real life. Do you have any idea what it costs to make a commercial quality game, software application, a proper rock album or a movie?

Also, I don't know you at all so I'd like to ask you: do you create? Do you create code, graphics, music, literature, poetry, performance art, paintings, anything of that regard? Or are you a pure consumer of the said works?



And what exactly is your "fucking point" aside from "I want stuff for free and I'm not happy with the actually free stuff that people produce"?

there would be no pirate scene if copying/cracking wasn't illegal. it's about fun, thrill, fame, challenge. that's it. it's a 'hobby' like graffiti. make it legal and it gets boring. bombing subway trains in the yard at night is much more fun than drawing your neighbors garage at day for sure. but don't come crying if you go to the slammer for it.

i think the demoscene wouldn't be what it is today if there was no pirate scene. maybe there would be something similar but i doubt it would be like it is today. afaik even the major event - demoparties - developed out of copyparties.

[quote]yay to the internets.[/]quote]
Even tho he didn't win the thread, wysiwtf just won the thread. I don't think he he knows yet.

My favorite quote so far is Okkie's one. :)

Mutherfuking "]"

preacher:
no im not in the "creative business", feel free to check for my pouet releases (hint: theres none ;).
but im not unemployed either so i think i know about the concept of earning and spending.

i really like the basic ideas of communism but obviously it has severe flaws when it comes to efficiency and freedom. still i wonder if that idea could be evolved into something that actually works better.

aanyway, what i was on about in this case is that art cant be enforced and creativity cant be bought, theres countless of highly polished but soulless AAA games, movies and music to prove that point.

There are highly creative games, movies and musics that sell perfectly well. That proves your point wrong.

wysiwtf: aren't you a nordlicht organizer?

of course there are, but the more you venture into the "lesser budget" productions the more you will find originality.
something to do with risks and huge investements, i guess.

gargaj: yes, but how is that relevant? =)

wysiwtf: i suppose you would be completely okay with people not paying the entrance fee then. after all, they're not stealing your party, it's still there.

wysiwtf: no, it has to do with necessity being the mother of invention.

..and Gargaj just won.

Dude, you have been throwing out ridic generalizations like this the entire time, it's baffling. I don't know if you think the world is that black and white, but I can guarantee you it really isn't!

The creativity itself perhaps not, but I don't see the problem in giving a creator something for taking something. For me this is all about respect and fairness. I like something (games/art/etc.) and give the creator something back (aka money). If I don't like the pricing I wait (to buy it cheaper if the price is reduced sometime) or simply don't buy it at all.

If you copy it or download it for free you steal it. Although »stealing« perhaps isn't the right word because it provokes the »copying is not stealing« debate. Therefore I would rather call it »You disrespect the creator and piss him in the face« instead of stealing.

well if we have space left (which we didnt) i would be completely ok with people coming in for free as long as our costs are covered.

i can see that those who pay for their entrance will probably disagree, and as its our task to make everyone happy its unlikely to happen.

I would love to hear the response to Gargaj's point.

Ah, there it was.

What if no one wanted to pay? Or what if only a few people paid and the rest were hanging outside the partyplace, having their own shadow party and one guy inside streamed the compos to the ones at the parking lot? And you were left to pay the rent of the partyhall, the beamer etc. from your own pocket since so few people bothered to pay (but at the same time you created a lot of enjoyment to a lot of people)?

it boosts recognition though.

Plus, I'm pretty sure that a lot of people already paid for Revision and Evoke and Solskogen and it's kind of unrealistic to expect people to pay for every party they attend...

yeah i mean, the thought of having to pay for the usage or consumption of immaterial goods is a perversion of our society/system.

...

This.