a new breed of artists...
category: general [glöplog]
what else
How does this Saturday sound, from around mid day? Meet up at the trainstation cph and walk out into the hopefully brilliant weather bestowed upon cph atm.
i miss cph. lets see if there are any cheap tickets.
first bit off topic:
damn eeblis you are really there. you know where it's at! i mean c'mon all artists are just "hacks". only real art is renaissance art and cccp/nazi germanny socialist realism. all other artists are just bunch of scammers. all modern art got no real value unless it has tits. tits especially and dragons. all if wade can masturbate to it it's real art. seriously
then main topic
C'MON *CHING CHING* DON'T YOU WANT TO MAKE SOME EXTRA MONEY GUYS. oh ... you don't ? you don't want to be a real artist ? what ? taken seriously while making shitty coder art ? oh you don't ? well then...
damn eeblis you are really there. you know where it's at! i mean c'mon all artists are just "hacks". only real art is renaissance art and cccp/nazi germanny socialist realism. all other artists are just bunch of scammers. all modern art got no real value unless it has tits. tits especially and dragons. all if wade can masturbate to it it's real art. seriously
then main topic
C'MON *CHING CHING* DON'T YOU WANT TO MAKE SOME EXTRA MONEY GUYS. oh ... you don't ? you don't want to be a real artist ? what ? taken seriously while making shitty coder art ? oh you don't ? well then...
i totally agree with know. i rather compare demoscene to picture of graffiti. you can go to see graffiti but you can't own it. then you can take picture but it's just ass. but you can buy original art made by underground artists from gallery. like that. okay...
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I belive in free choice, free will and ultimate personal freedom ...
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..., but i have to consult higher authority before i make any agreements.
aaaw... that´s just priceless ;)
three incomplete esoteric axioms of money:
* money is an instrument to change the world. "you spend money" (like in german: spend ~ spenden == donate).
money enables a global voting system and transfers value.
* work generates value.
* value is subjective.
-> digital work is not different from other kind of work, but digital products are...
ps: would you say this it is ok to make some income that way if the content would be different/better? or should all digital products be free?
for me: i still don't know, it's kind of a system failure 'value out of range'...
value was measured mainly in material terms for a long time, now the question "how much?" has become kind of obsolete; what know counts is only "what?", maybe "when?"...
to be concrete: i think it is ok to charge 10-50 euro for a musical album for example. 125$ is clearly too much for some chikymicky screensavers. affordable art for everybody, a market compatible with cloneable media, what doesn't mean it has to be pure pop. one price for all sorts of content, styles, generes... no pre-evaluation. flat price for every piece.
people spend money for that kind of thing, if there's enough resonance... "the album" or even singles has just to to be reinvented accordingly to the new environment, and there will be a market which is not a bad thing at all... interactive or not, abstract/demoish or more like slideshows, there will be enough room for all kinds of work. imo there's a need for something like that. look at new games, like 'little big planet' and all the usergenerated-content-web2.0-etc-hype... drm, p2p.
flat-rate or even art-tax could solve to problem and boost the quality again. youtube and mostly all other open platforms - at the end the whole internet - show: when it is open and free, all ends up messy and chaotic.
but, netlabels are cool!! why not making netlabels with flat-rate access focused on multimedia-content?
is there already something like that? i don't know it then...
(or is pouet a netlabel? i think not, because there have to be some kind of selection, a label has a theme/philosophy..) sorry for self repeating random monolog ;)
* money is an instrument to change the world. "you spend money" (like in german: spend ~ spenden == donate).
money enables a global voting system and transfers value.
* work generates value.
* value is subjective.
-> digital work is not different from other kind of work, but digital products are...
ps: would you say this it is ok to make some income that way if the content would be different/better? or should all digital products be free?
for me: i still don't know, it's kind of a system failure 'value out of range'...
value was measured mainly in material terms for a long time, now the question "how much?" has become kind of obsolete; what know counts is only "what?", maybe "when?"...
to be concrete: i think it is ok to charge 10-50 euro for a musical album for example. 125$ is clearly too much for some chikymicky screensavers. affordable art for everybody, a market compatible with cloneable media, what doesn't mean it has to be pure pop. one price for all sorts of content, styles, generes... no pre-evaluation. flat price for every piece.
people spend money for that kind of thing, if there's enough resonance... "the album" or even singles has just to to be reinvented accordingly to the new environment, and there will be a market which is not a bad thing at all... interactive or not, abstract/demoish or more like slideshows, there will be enough room for all kinds of work. imo there's a need for something like that. look at new games, like 'little big planet' and all the usergenerated-content-web2.0-etc-hype... drm, p2p.
flat-rate or even art-tax could solve to problem and boost the quality again. youtube and mostly all other open platforms - at the end the whole internet - show: when it is open and free, all ends up messy and chaotic.
but, netlabels are cool!! why not making netlabels with flat-rate access focused on multimedia-content?
is there already something like that? i don't know it then...
(or is pouet a netlabel? i think not, because there have to be some kind of selection, a label has a theme/philosophy..) sorry for self repeating random monolog ;)
just wanted to state that i like you 0rel :D
pouets, i like too.. :). money wouldn't make this a better place, that's for sure...
but i need some :/, maybe the reason for my upsetness... that's all a bit para dox, i know
i was pretty ironic what i said earlier just so you know...
Sometimes, price is part of the "product."
but i agree with knos again
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As for the "overpriced" argument, well, supply and demand.
Exactly... .
Anyway I think it's a good idea and for sure one of the natural evolutions of art "to the public", from a static canavas to a dinamic one (welcome 21th century!)
It's only that at first glance when I saw the price I was a bit surprised.
all i have to say about this is one word: INTERNET!
0rel: i dont value digital products lower than real services, i merely dislike schemes on selling things at overpriced values. ofcourse the value for the work should be paid to enjoy it, but considering the actual value and the salespitch i'd rather enjoy something that i dont have to pay for and doesnt claim to be more than what it is. i find it offensive that people knowingly overprice their products. regardless if its in greed, hope for intellectuals to purchase it or in sheer hope of raising their personal artistic value. in that sense i believe true value for these pieces would only attainable by customizing a piece to an actual client in need, taking a designer role instead of the absent creator pushing his creation.
parallely the music business is taking the toll and most unknown composers relegated to a life of composing on demand for sporadic projects (which is often unpaid servitude btw)
what im getting at is that the commercialization of overpriced "art" of whatever nature is only bridging the elitist consumer from the people who actually should be getting more cultured in order to push forward society in many ways: middle/lower class.
and in that regard yes i'd much rather see something digital get a flatrate access fee (like you pay a museum entrance) instead of an overpriced pseudo "exclusive" copy which everyone with 2 inches of a brain would be aware there is no such thing as exclusivity in the digital world. the only "exclusivity" you're purchasing is the direct connection with the artist.
we already pay art tax by the way, check how much of your government fund goes to cultural activities. which incidently get assigned to the same people who get paid to present their work and then charge you for admitance. double tax and still no public access. _this_ is not caused by the capitalist society we live in which you should disembowl yourself if you dislike its ethics, _this_ is actually caused by a pseudo art class of its own, where statute and connections play a very high role in getting inside the gig. i find it disturbing that you should need to whore your work to others in order to be accepted into what should be a public service to begin with.
its not religion, not hippie communism either, it's distraught at a society who plays democracy but lacks most of letters required to spell it without stuttering. and yes i guess most of it is driven by capitalist greed ideals and dismissed as only normal, since hei, we live in a capitalist society, so scheming others is what we're supposed to do right? its only gay when the balls touch.
parallely the music business is taking the toll and most unknown composers relegated to a life of composing on demand for sporadic projects (which is often unpaid servitude btw)
what im getting at is that the commercialization of overpriced "art" of whatever nature is only bridging the elitist consumer from the people who actually should be getting more cultured in order to push forward society in many ways: middle/lower class.
and in that regard yes i'd much rather see something digital get a flatrate access fee (like you pay a museum entrance) instead of an overpriced pseudo "exclusive" copy which everyone with 2 inches of a brain would be aware there is no such thing as exclusivity in the digital world. the only "exclusivity" you're purchasing is the direct connection with the artist.
we already pay art tax by the way, check how much of your government fund goes to cultural activities. which incidently get assigned to the same people who get paid to present their work and then charge you for admitance. double tax and still no public access. _this_ is not caused by the capitalist society we live in which you should disembowl yourself if you dislike its ethics, _this_ is actually caused by a pseudo art class of its own, where statute and connections play a very high role in getting inside the gig. i find it disturbing that you should need to whore your work to others in order to be accepted into what should be a public service to begin with.
its not religion, not hippie communism either, it's distraught at a society who plays democracy but lacks most of letters required to spell it without stuttering. and yes i guess most of it is driven by capitalist greed ideals and dismissed as only normal, since hei, we live in a capitalist society, so scheming others is what we're supposed to do right? its only gay when the balls touch.
iblis, nops, can't saturday, sadly. sunday would be fine, though.. am away to holland the weekend after though.
sure lets do it sunday then. same deal?
cool! yeah, eh what time exactly? 2-ish? or what's "mid-day" in denmark, the land-o-everything-is-defined-exactly?
yeah 2 is good, at the central station. But for ease drop me a line at *n"o%a&h/d¤k([at]h#o"t{m§a&i*l¤.c&o(m# just in case
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puryx, wisecrack :p
Where you see greed, I see passion and love.
PS, also do notice that this endeavour comes from a country where art is not run by the government, like in most european countries.
i agree. primarily the passion for wealth and love of money
I've got news for you, you don't get rich by selling your own works. Even when the price tag is heavy. The speculation and capitalism only comes after the price has been validated by a number of turns of selling and buying and discovering.
Prices are the figment of desire. And the friction they impose on those who wish to acquire something makes the acquision more concrete.
Some prices are not monetary..
For example, in order to watch demos you often have to pay, in that you have to buy into the demoscene as a whole.
I am maybe lacking imagination: I have big doubts regarding the ability of us to develop relationships (stories) with things which do not have a certain level of concreteness. Selling digital works on physical media, as limited numbers of copy is an attempt at making them "real" .. the intention seems noble to me.
Prices are the figment of desire. And the friction they impose on those who wish to acquire something makes the acquision more concrete.
Some prices are not monetary..
For example, in order to watch demos you often have to pay, in that you have to buy into the demoscene as a whole.
I am maybe lacking imagination: I have big doubts regarding the ability of us to develop relationships (stories) with things which do not have a certain level of concreteness. Selling digital works on physical media, as limited numbers of copy is an attempt at making them "real" .. the intention seems noble to me.