scene addicted to adrenaline?
category: general [glöplog]
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I wonder if the kind of high-intensity personalities who often excel in this mode and don't know how to switch off can end up either spinning their wheels or working against each other when the pressure is off.
Simply put: yes. Also, in management's eyes, such people often create expectations that everyone or at least good employees should also act like this, which can lead to problems. It's hard to hold your own when compared against workaholics who have little else in their life except C++. There was one guy at our company who put in enough extra time to amount for three month's worth of vacation, and he didn't even want to use it before he left for greener pastures. He was also a brilliant programmer, so brilliant that most of the rest of us have problems reading his code now that he's gone (think of highly complex hierarchical templates and all that stuff).
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Too much urgency can also compress communication and cause conflict, I suspect.
A direct quote heard from one of our artists during the last crunch, said to the producer: "I will take a huge shit inside your Excel" (in Finnish: "mä paskannan sun exceliin")
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Third: The flipside of that intensity, of that "work hard" half of the equation is "play hard", which in the scene seems to translate in some ways to "booze until you are horizontal".
I wonder, does it have to be that way? Yes, it is exciting, but is there a way to do it that won't damage one's productivity?
I'd wager that the majority (or a big part nevertheless) of the scene is less interested in productivity and more interested in the fun/social aspect. Parties are a rare way for many to spend their own personal time away from their families and work, and when you're meeting your old friends from days long since gone, hard play is what occurs.
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what if more folks did microsprints coming up to parties? Not burnout crazy, not al-nighters, but small pushes?
I think many people do it already. Personally I go into a crunch mode a week or two before a big party, during which I first make a releasable version of my production and then tweak. Call it an additional push. Brainstorm is spread all around the globe, but if I was sharing coding/design responsibility on the production and lived close to my groupmates, I would love to do this.
Sorry not to reply to everyone above before by the way . . . hi folks who replied, and thank you!
Sorry this is brief:
re okkie:
heh heh heh
re Preacher:
1 - your job sounds . . . fun ( ;
2 - point on the social aspect.
3 -
Could that be a recipe for not being happy with your prods if you rush the hands-on part?
I'm starting to wonder (in relation to similar wondering at my day job) if the conceptual side of demomaking could have benchmarks related to breaking your idea into pieces and figuring out what you have to know and do to realize different parts of the demo.
Like any art, there is a concept component and a craft component, and doing a crunch seems to compress the amount of time someone who is still learning from what they do can have to learn and change their mind and make mistakes, both conceptually and technically.
Someone who is still learning = everyone, somehow, unless you're just phoning it in.
Sorry this is brief:
re okkie:
heh heh heh
re Preacher:
1 - your job sounds . . . fun ( ;
2 - point on the social aspect.
3 -
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Personally I go into a crunch mode a week or two before a big party, during which I first make a releasable version of my production and then tweak.
Could that be a recipe for not being happy with your prods if you rush the hands-on part?
I'm starting to wonder (in relation to similar wondering at my day job) if the conceptual side of demomaking could have benchmarks related to breaking your idea into pieces and figuring out what you have to know and do to realize different parts of the demo.
Like any art, there is a concept component and a craft component, and doing a crunch seems to compress the amount of time someone who is still learning from what they do can have to learn and change their mind and make mistakes, both conceptually and technically.
Someone who is still learning = everyone, somehow, unless you're just phoning it in.
lug00ber and I talked about this over the years several times and we have very different attitudes, which I think are the two opposite ends of the spectrum. He gets the buzz from the crunch and likes to work at parties, I get the buzz from the quiet preparation and avoid working at parties if possible.
My understanding is that a large factor of this comes from how ephemeral you think your demos are/should be: If you expect your demo to be seen at the party and never again, then you spend less time on it. If you hope it turns out good enough to be re-watched later, you usually spend a bit more time on it. Because the shelf life of demos has been reduced drastically over the years, I think more and more people just sod it and whack something together over the weekend because hey, it can only end up better than expected - this I guess is the reason why we don't really see "ambitious demos" apart from by a few recurring names.
Another circumstance is the age, but I think it factors in differently than how most people think: Professional jobs teach you not just a sense of urgency but things like planning / scheduling, delegating, prioritizing, etc. You get a better sense of estimates on how much time you need for certain things, you learn to include random delays, you leave yourself more headroom. Even in technical aspects, you end up using more hands-on tools (version control, issue tracking, etc.) which allows you to rush less.
I was reading about John S. Hall some time ago and his attitude towards poetry slams; how he disliked the competitive nature because it was the opposite of what poetry should've been - I think there's some of that involved here: We sometimes just make something that's "good enough" so we don't feel bad about not making anything and we still get the buzz of making something. I just don't know how sustainable it is for an artform.
My understanding is that a large factor of this comes from how ephemeral you think your demos are/should be: If you expect your demo to be seen at the party and never again, then you spend less time on it. If you hope it turns out good enough to be re-watched later, you usually spend a bit more time on it. Because the shelf life of demos has been reduced drastically over the years, I think more and more people just sod it and whack something together over the weekend because hey, it can only end up better than expected - this I guess is the reason why we don't really see "ambitious demos" apart from by a few recurring names.
Another circumstance is the age, but I think it factors in differently than how most people think: Professional jobs teach you not just a sense of urgency but things like planning / scheduling, delegating, prioritizing, etc. You get a better sense of estimates on how much time you need for certain things, you learn to include random delays, you leave yourself more headroom. Even in technical aspects, you end up using more hands-on tools (version control, issue tracking, etc.) which allows you to rush less.
I was reading about John S. Hall some time ago and his attitude towards poetry slams; how he disliked the competitive nature because it was the opposite of what poetry should've been - I think there's some of that involved here: We sometimes just make something that's "good enough" so we don't feel bad about not making anything and we still get the buzz of making something. I just don't know how sustainable it is for an artform.
Some of us just do a lot of stuff.
IMHO you should not feel bad about not making anything. Really, this is something I have been thinking about a lot in the past years. I used to be very diligent in the past, almost compulsive. During my studies however, I realized that diligence usually is not rewarded. Either you do your job as expected, then nobody will complain, or you don't do it, then they will complain and perhaps fire you. But you won't get anything from doing more than what is asked from you.
Many people are ambitious and set high standards to themselves - thus they put themselves under pressure, which is not always beneficial for anyone. Sure you need to make an effort in order to achieve anything at all, but you should primarily think about your own physical and mental health and not overdo it, IMHO.
Many people are ambitious and set high standards to themselves - thus they put themselves under pressure, which is not always beneficial for anyone. Sure you need to make an effort in order to achieve anything at all, but you should primarily think about your own physical and mental health and not overdo it, IMHO.
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you should not feel bad about not making anything
Maybe that works for you.
In my case, I feel pretty dead if I'm inactive.
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Works best when there is a monthly meetup or something
That is why we meet twice a week (like right now for example), it makes producing demos something natural instead of something that burns you up instead.
Finding time to work together for a week or so is almost impossible, but two evenings a week is doable and fun.
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a large factor of this comes from how ephemeral you think your demos are/should be
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Professional jobs teach you not just a sense of urgency but things like planning / scheduling, delegating, prioritizing, etc.
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I was reading about John S. Hall some time ago and his attitude towards poetry slams; how he disliked the competitive nature because it was the opposite of what poetry should've been - I think there's some of that involved here: We sometimes just make something that's "good enough" so we don't feel bad about not making anything and we still get the buzz of making something. I just don't know how sustainable it is for an artform.
BANG.
That sound was you hitting the head of one of the two nails my thoughts are hanging on here. Pardon the tormented simile.
Cast your minds back to school.
Remember the swotty kids who had planned, written 2 drafts and finished the final assignment before the teacher had finished telling you about it?
And then there were the others who looking sleep deprived, were either scribbling the last sentence (old skool huh?) as the teacher came around to collect them. Or even worse, those who had to congregate around the teachers desk and beg for an extension because their family dog had been particularly hungry last night.
Remember them?
I was usually in the latter group. When I have to write code (trust me - I avoid it in my work if I possibly can) I find that having a deadline to meet often brings out my best work.
Now if you'll excuse me I've just got to go and ring a client and explain to them that doge ate their code snippet. ;]
Remember the swotty kids who had planned, written 2 drafts and finished the final assignment before the teacher had finished telling you about it?
And then there were the others who looking sleep deprived, were either scribbling the last sentence (old skool huh?) as the teacher came around to collect them. Or even worse, those who had to congregate around the teachers desk and beg for an extension because their family dog had been particularly hungry last night.
Remember them?
I was usually in the latter group. When I have to write code (trust me - I avoid it in my work if I possibly can) I find that having a deadline to meet often brings out my best work.
Now if you'll excuse me I've just got to go and ring a client and explain to them that doge ate their code snippet. ;]
As a phd student who surely isnt in "tech" (although some would consider my subject somewhat techy) I am a bit of the odd kid out at the department - as I enjoy the murderous last minute bravado of giving your all. That doesnt mean that I dont start on my stuff in good time, but there is something in my mind that really loves that 3 am part where you print out everything, grab a pen, and walks down and sits on the sidewalk in 12C, scribbling and jotting on your manuscript. And suddenly, it call comes together, it makes sense and your brain is giving another part of your brain the sloppiest and happiest blowjob you have ever had.
You should have gone home now, your diabetes-sentence is one step closer from all the sugar and fat you have been consuming, but yes - I'll die in this breach or prosper. Meanwhile my colleagues have gone home to have a good nights sleep, and secretly, I am envious, and even more secretly, I loathe them for their quitter attitude (which might just be awesome planning skill and being brighter than me). That is my confession as an adrenaline junkie.
And yes - I cannot keep this up forever, as my body is already telling me, in several strange ways, that it is sick and tired of being tortured like this. But fuck you body, I refuse to die old and bored.
You should have gone home now, your diabetes-sentence is one step closer from all the sugar and fat you have been consuming, but yes - I'll die in this breach or prosper. Meanwhile my colleagues have gone home to have a good nights sleep, and secretly, I am envious, and even more secretly, I loathe them for their quitter attitude (which might just be awesome planning skill and being brighter than me). That is my confession as an adrenaline junkie.
And yes - I cannot keep this up forever, as my body is already telling me, in several strange ways, that it is sick and tired of being tortured like this. But fuck you body, I refuse to die old and bored.
Interesting discussion.
Gargaj wrote:
I can definitely relate to that, but I also have to say that for me, learning how to better manage the development process took away some of the fun (aka the adrenaline, I guess). On the one hand, having a job, a family and other commitments in "real life" means I *have* to apply all those orderly management concepts in order to be able to code at all. On the other hand, it makes it feel more like work and less like fun, as it used to be.
But even though I dearly miss this state of mind, I also found that I cannot "unlearn" all this management stuff and simply hack away mindlessly in an all-nighter like I did in in my youth, even if I'm at a party and for a weekend don't have work or family around me.
Sorry for getting off-topic here, but is that so? How do you measure this, or what is a shelf life of a demo in the first place? I would have thought with all the lamentation about how fewer productions get released and the scene dies, the shelf life of a demo should increase, not decrease. (I missed a decade or so of demos and don't really know any sceners (yet), so I'm genuinely curious about that).
Gargaj wrote:
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Professional jobs teach you not just a sense of urgency but things like planning / scheduling, delegating, prioritizing, etc. You get a better sense of estimates on how much time you need for certain things, you learn to include random delays, you leave yourself more headroom. Even in technical aspects, you end up using more hands-on tools (version control, issue tracking, etc.) which allows you to rush less.
I can definitely relate to that, but I also have to say that for me, learning how to better manage the development process took away some of the fun (aka the adrenaline, I guess). On the one hand, having a job, a family and other commitments in "real life" means I *have* to apply all those orderly management concepts in order to be able to code at all. On the other hand, it makes it feel more like work and less like fun, as it used to be.
But even though I dearly miss this state of mind, I also found that I cannot "unlearn" all this management stuff and simply hack away mindlessly in an all-nighter like I did in in my youth, even if I'm at a party and for a weekend don't have work or family around me.
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Because the shelf life of demos has been reduced drastically over the years, [...]
Sorry for getting off-topic here, but is that so? How do you measure this, or what is a shelf life of a demo in the first place? I would have thought with all the lamentation about how fewer productions get released and the scene dies, the shelf life of a demo should increase, not decrease. (I missed a decade or so of demos and don't really know any sceners (yet), so I'm genuinely curious about that).
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[...] I find that having a deadline to meet often brings out my best work.
Hehe, for me a deadline not only brings out my best work, it's often needed for me to bring out any work at all. :-D
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Sorry for getting off-topic here, but is that so? How do you measure this, or what is a shelf life of a demo in the first place?
Mention a demo that's been released in the last two years that you just can't stop showing to people.
Now think of the demos released three to five years before that and ask yourself the same question: a lot of more demos start to pop up on your radar - iconic ones.
At least that's how I interpret Gargaj's "shelf life"-comment, but I might be mistaken of course.
i think he means how long you can bother to keep your demo on the shelf till "it's perfect" to release. and that once picking a possible release date at a party, having a release candidate that meets 70% of the intended plans gets released as 'it is what it is' and you wont start working 4 extra months on that last 30%. unless your name is keops :P
Maali: that might be it too of course, but my interpretation was more along the lines of "Once I release this, it will have a life of its own for a while", and "a while" being the variable for how long that happens to be.
Shelflife implies a time period _after_ packaging and shipping; basically what Gloom says.
ah, i was more into the "on the shelf"-idea ;)
Maybe a solution is to have short-term projects and long-term projects, although what that means will vary depending on your experience
( speaking as a rusty crappy graphician having to learn new tools on top of that, as I don't have access to some the ones I was used to . . . )
So then you can have a good simple project for a party soon, and a good more ambitious one for a party further away . . . . ( Fyi, four months to Revision, time to deadline angst if you aren't already)
( speaking as a rusty crappy graphician having to learn new tools on top of that, as I don't have access to some the ones I was used to . . . )
So then you can have a good simple project for a party soon, and a good more ambitious one for a party further away . . . . ( Fyi, four months to Revision, time to deadline angst if you aren't already)
Just do a lot of stuff.
yeah, just do what you want the way you want to do it, no need to bring psychoanalysis into play, it only wastes precious demo dev time! ;)
Make shit, burn churches, fuck school, kill people.
golfwang
The only line I'm addicted to is rasterline
What Ferris said.
http://www.businessinsider.com/syndromes-drive-coders-crazy-2014-3
"Overworked coders tended to produce less high-quality code when working 60 hour/weeks than refreshed people did when working 40-hour weeks."
"Overworked coders tended to produce less high-quality code when working 60 hour/weeks than refreshed people did when working 40-hour weeks."