innactive groupnames / ghettoscene drama encore
category: general [glöplog]
Jesters
http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/search.php?what=7&query=jester
Icemans
http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/search.php?what=7&query=iceman
I've probably said this before, but maybe it would settle the RSI dispute if the new Red Sector Inc had its own object id number. It's clearly not a part of the same continuum as the old one, which ended when it was fused into TRSI. There are many separate sceners named Iceman, maybe some of them dead already, many separate demos named Second Reality, and many separate groups named Red Sector Inc, maybe some of them dead already...
Anyway. Maybe this whole object modeling thing makes the scene too mechanical and "official".
http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/search.php?what=7&query=jester
Icemans
http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/search.php?what=7&query=iceman
I've probably said this before, but maybe it would settle the RSI dispute if the new Red Sector Inc had its own object id number. It's clearly not a part of the same continuum as the old one, which ended when it was fused into TRSI. There are many separate sceners named Iceman, maybe some of them dead already, many separate demos named Second Reality, and many separate groups named Red Sector Inc, maybe some of them dead already...
Anyway. Maybe this whole object modeling thing makes the scene too mechanical and "official".
this thread makes me want to release a really annoying PC intro made by irata of the baudsurfers
...called variform reality!
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Most of those Second Realities are clones of "the original" by Future Crew, I think.by yzi:
Jesters
http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/search.php?what=7&query=jester
Icemans
http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/search.php?what=7&query=iceman
I've probably said this before, but maybe it would settle the RSI dispute if the new Red Sector Inc had its own object id number. It's clearly not a part of the same continuum as the old one, which ended when it was fused into TRSI. There are many separate sceners named Iceman, maybe some of them dead already, many separate demos named Second Reality, and many separate groups named Red Sector Inc, maybe some of them dead already...
Anyway. Maybe this whole object modeling thing makes the scene too mechanical and "official".
As to the separate group ID on Pouet, yes, doing that here would have saved some of the fighting. I can't remember where but hardy had said he would have been fine if they'd called themselves "RSI [fr]" or something. I think it might make uploads harder if they both had the exact same name, even if they had different IDs. Pouet may disallow that anyway, who knows without digging into the source. :)
Oh, man...a thread because i dislike sth? scene-drama? i don´t see no scene-drama here at all!
To make my post a bit more clear:
If a group disbands and stops existing...and suddenly many years later some ex-member decides to release under the old groupname...this doesn´t work! All other members disbanded the Group. Normally only the Founders/Organizers/CoreMembers(if no Organizers in the group and/or no founders left, because they long left the scene and aren´t reachable at all) should have the right to resurrect a group. Let me show some examples of what i am talking of:
-Razor1911 disbanded somewhen in 1990 or 1991...and in 1994 suddenly they were back, with only one of the members being an original member of the old Razor...he wasn´t the Organizer of the old but the new one. He wasn´t a founder of the original one either. He was just a member for some few months before they disbanded. Diskmags stated he didn´t ask any of the old Organizers/Founders if he may resurrect Razor at all. The whole scene was in uproar about this stunt for quite some time. Razor1911 kept releasing stuff...good stuff, so people kind of accepted them after some time...still knowing it´s a completely different Razor than the original one!
-Alcatraz died in the 90s (i think) and resurrected in 2008. The resurrection was organized by s7ing, the same s7ing that was Alcatraz Organizer when they died in the 90s. He even asked the original founders if it would be ok if he restarted the Group and as they gave a go it happened and we have a legit Alatraz, back in the scene. We all know most members of todays ATZ weren´t in the old setup, but atleast some are left/back.
Now about what i tried to say about groups being dead as long as their coders don´t return. This was of course badly sentenced by me, not what i tried to say at all.
But when a group is disbanded, how can an ex-member keep on using the group-name at all? The Group is dead, right?
A Group needs graphicians, musicians and coders to make Demos, so without having one of these there won´t be a demo at all, right? So as i see it a comeback of a group needs atleast one of each to get productive again. All i tried to say is that without a coder there won´t be a demo to contribute music/graphics to at all.
Ofcourse i see the dilemma in what i just wrote...if PIB wants to return to the scerne and even wants to resurrect his old Group Dreamdealers but has no other members willing to comeback he needs someone for the music and graphics...so he asks members of other groups and it gets a coop of several groups...all fine! But at the same time underlines what i am trying to say about coders all the time...without PIB there would be no Dreamdealers releasing in 2016.(I have no idea if he was a founder/organizer or atleast asked someone if it´s ok to resurrect the group, but i think it´s all legit!)
But there won´t be a Bomb-Demo (without coop) soonish for example unless Gengiz returns as a coder or Made finds other people to fill the spots of missing Jobs. Same about Sanity...i don´t see Chaos or Mr.Pet returning under the old label at all, that´s why i said they´ll stay dead for sure. Of course also Moby could find new poeple to fill the roles. newSanity aswell as newBomb would need to make it legit first, though...by asking ex-Organizers/Founders for permission.
The TRSI-Drama is of course why i have a set mind about all of this. We fought for years to make newTristar step back and rename to TSA...they first had to get the point, that original Tristar merged into TRSI, so we ARE Tristar already, hence there couldn´t be another Tristar, right?!! And just when they realized we are right and renamed themselves Baudsurfer came up and started newRSI...which can´t exist as we ARE Red Sector Inc. (RSI) already! Baudsurfer was a member of TRSI for some time under the handle kozmik, so he knew about our troubles with newTristar! Him being a lame faker with fake arguments (being an original founder etc.) is wellknown to the scene. But there are also people that aren´t in the scene and so they watch a new RSI-Demo and think it was us, which is a correct assumption, but sadly not true. Eventhough fakeRSI-releases have quite some quality we don´t want to get associated to them.
How would you feel if someone starts a group with the same name as yours and starts releasing stuff? Would feel completely wrong, eh? And this is exactly what is happening for a long time now with fakeRSI, so we are upset of course!
Never said sth like that. Must have been someone else!
To make my post a bit more clear:
If a group disbands and stops existing...and suddenly many years later some ex-member decides to release under the old groupname...this doesn´t work! All other members disbanded the Group. Normally only the Founders/Organizers/CoreMembers(if no Organizers in the group and/or no founders left, because they long left the scene and aren´t reachable at all) should have the right to resurrect a group. Let me show some examples of what i am talking of:
-Razor1911 disbanded somewhen in 1990 or 1991...and in 1994 suddenly they were back, with only one of the members being an original member of the old Razor...he wasn´t the Organizer of the old but the new one. He wasn´t a founder of the original one either. He was just a member for some few months before they disbanded. Diskmags stated he didn´t ask any of the old Organizers/Founders if he may resurrect Razor at all. The whole scene was in uproar about this stunt for quite some time. Razor1911 kept releasing stuff...good stuff, so people kind of accepted them after some time...still knowing it´s a completely different Razor than the original one!
-Alcatraz died in the 90s (i think) and resurrected in 2008. The resurrection was organized by s7ing, the same s7ing that was Alcatraz Organizer when they died in the 90s. He even asked the original founders if it would be ok if he restarted the Group and as they gave a go it happened and we have a legit Alatraz, back in the scene. We all know most members of todays ATZ weren´t in the old setup, but atleast some are left/back.
Now about what i tried to say about groups being dead as long as their coders don´t return. This was of course badly sentenced by me, not what i tried to say at all.
But when a group is disbanded, how can an ex-member keep on using the group-name at all? The Group is dead, right?
A Group needs graphicians, musicians and coders to make Demos, so without having one of these there won´t be a demo at all, right? So as i see it a comeback of a group needs atleast one of each to get productive again. All i tried to say is that without a coder there won´t be a demo to contribute music/graphics to at all.
Ofcourse i see the dilemma in what i just wrote...if PIB wants to return to the scerne and even wants to resurrect his old Group Dreamdealers but has no other members willing to comeback he needs someone for the music and graphics...so he asks members of other groups and it gets a coop of several groups...all fine! But at the same time underlines what i am trying to say about coders all the time...without PIB there would be no Dreamdealers releasing in 2016.(I have no idea if he was a founder/organizer or atleast asked someone if it´s ok to resurrect the group, but i think it´s all legit!)
But there won´t be a Bomb-Demo (without coop) soonish for example unless Gengiz returns as a coder or Made finds other people to fill the spots of missing Jobs. Same about Sanity...i don´t see Chaos or Mr.Pet returning under the old label at all, that´s why i said they´ll stay dead for sure. Of course also Moby could find new poeple to fill the roles. newSanity aswell as newBomb would need to make it legit first, though...by asking ex-Organizers/Founders for permission.
The TRSI-Drama is of course why i have a set mind about all of this. We fought for years to make newTristar step back and rename to TSA...they first had to get the point, that original Tristar merged into TRSI, so we ARE Tristar already, hence there couldn´t be another Tristar, right?!! And just when they realized we are right and renamed themselves Baudsurfer came up and started newRSI...which can´t exist as we ARE Red Sector Inc. (RSI) already! Baudsurfer was a member of TRSI for some time under the handle kozmik, so he knew about our troubles with newTristar! Him being a lame faker with fake arguments (being an original founder etc.) is wellknown to the scene. But there are also people that aren´t in the scene and so they watch a new RSI-Demo and think it was us, which is a correct assumption, but sadly not true. Eventhough fakeRSI-releases have quite some quality we don´t want to get associated to them.
How would you feel if someone starts a group with the same name as yours and starts releasing stuff? Would feel completely wrong, eh? And this is exactly what is happening for a long time now with fakeRSI, so we are upset of course!
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I can't remember where but hardy had said he would have been fine if they'd called themselves "RSI [fr]" or something.
Never said sth like that. Must have been someone else!
hardy: you should create a new group :)
meanwhile i'm waiting for chaos to do a new sanity demo :) should happen any moment now!!
meanwhile i'm waiting for chaos to do a new sanity demo :) should happen any moment now!!
Given the scope (read: the amount of work involved) that productions in the bigger categories carry these days a lot more co-operation has seen daylight, certainly in smaller countries.
This is great, but it costs a little bit of that sweet animosity and trash talk. A lot of my "heroes" if you will have stopped making stuff or just fell off the radar completely.
TPB had a hiatus from 2003 to 2014, never count wrinkly old men out. Bypass will be back too.
I'll also use this opportunity to state that Titan sucks, and stealing robots is the sort of thing that gets you manhandled. Just saying.
*drops mic*
This is great, but it costs a little bit of that sweet animosity and trash talk. A lot of my "heroes" if you will have stopped making stuff or just fell off the radar completely.
TPB had a hiatus from 2003 to 2014, never count wrinkly old men out. Bypass will be back too.
I'll also use this opportunity to state that Titan sucks, and stealing robots is the sort of thing that gets you manhandled. Just saying.
*drops mic*
I just founded a new Group, the name is minimalartefact! ;)
^^As legit as kozmiks RSI is...he had never been a member but uses the name.
^^As legit as kozmiks RSI is...he had never been a member but uses the name.
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I'll also use this opportunity to state that Titan sucks
already made a demo about it: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=25655 <3
hardy: i think i could remix one of your intros using only 1 effect, a lot of post processing and simplified sound looping to make a new minimalartifact release ;) it would be awesome!!
That's solid!
It was at five Friday night at the stumble inn, me and ole' Harley just had to join in, next thing you know we were both seeing stars - they threw us out, closed down the bar.
It was at five Friday night at the stumble inn, me and ole' Harley just had to join in, next thing you know we were both seeing stars - they threw us out, closed down the bar.
ps: except RSI and TRSI don´t work together but cook their own soups each.
The first thing i did after realizing there´s someone releasing under our label was to ask our Organizers to let him join as his stuff is really good anyway...but they refused instantly, as they had kicked him from TRSI before FOR REASONS, he´s a moron, you know! So we don´t want to collaborate with them at all. And as we are TRSI for 25+ years and we are Tristar and we are Red Sector Inc. (RSI) we don´t see why we should make a new Group...instead of the moron that came way later in time to open a fake-RSI-group.
Man, i really tried not to get into our Drama again, but as i´m really upset about this bullshit it happened again, of course! :/
The first thing i did after realizing there´s someone releasing under our label was to ask our Organizers to let him join as his stuff is really good anyway...but they refused instantly, as they had kicked him from TRSI before FOR REASONS, he´s a moron, you know! So we don´t want to collaborate with them at all. And as we are TRSI for 25+ years and we are Tristar and we are Red Sector Inc. (RSI) we don´t see why we should make a new Group...instead of the moron that came way later in time to open a fake-RSI-group.
Man, i really tried not to get into our Drama again, but as i´m really upset about this bullshit it happened again, of course! :/
I'm happy that this is the kind of drama you have to deal with :)
Watch your health: In case you happen to have RSI you should consult your physician.
"do what the fuck you want as long as it's a (good) release" says fra^mandarine
(truth is, I'm jealous that no one complained I was fake when I started to re-release shits under the mandarine groupname back in 2013...)
(truth is, I'm jealous that no one complained I was fake when I started to re-release shits under the mandarine groupname back in 2013...)
Please explain this ghettoscene nonsense once and for all to me. To me it seems like middle-aged people trying to get along with some kind of playground-age code of honor.
And if an ex-member wants to undisband it?
And here we have it. Why would you ever want to release anything under a label that requires bullshit like this anyway? Why would you want to have a fucking boss at your hobby? I have one at work already, I don't need any more.
How can you disband a group? That would mean that the group is "owned" by someone.
Sure. But assume I team up with Dune and Der Piipo and make a kickass demo with them. Would you also need Hoplite for it to be Orange? There's 2/3 of Orange already there. I think it's a double standard if coders somehow "define" the group. If anything, coders are the more expendable ones since anyone can code but music and graphics tend to be more unique.
What if there are no such people? I can of course only talk for Traction, but there are no "Founders" or "Organizers" or any kind of fucking label bosses around. If one of my Traction friends wants to release a demo 20 years from now under that label, why would I either 1) care or 2) stop them from doing it? It would be just as much authentic Traction as something done by me or rale.
If it would be people with no connection whatsoever to Traction, I'd probably care just about enough to post on Pouet that these people are fakers. If it was someone I knew who had ties to Traction, I'd just be happy. More releases, yay!
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and suddenly many years later some ex-member decides to release under the old groupname...this doesn´t work! All other members disbanded the Group.
And if an ex-member wants to undisband it?
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Normally only the Founders/Organizers/CoreMembers(if no Organizers in the group and/or no founders left, because they long left the scene and aren´t reachable at all) should have the right to resurrect a group.
And here we have it. Why would you ever want to release anything under a label that requires bullshit like this anyway? Why would you want to have a fucking boss at your hobby? I have one at work already, I don't need any more.
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But when a group is disbanded, how can an ex-member keep on using the group-name at all? The Group is dead, right?
How can you disband a group? That would mean that the group is "owned" by someone.
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A Group needs graphicians, musicians and coders to make Demos, so without having one of these there won´t be a demo at all, right? So as i see it a comeback of a group needs atleast one of each to get productive again. All i tried to say is that without a coder there won´t be a demo to contribute music/graphics to at all.
Sure. But assume I team up with Dune and Der Piipo and make a kickass demo with them. Would you also need Hoplite for it to be Orange? There's 2/3 of Orange already there. I think it's a double standard if coders somehow "define" the group. If anything, coders are the more expendable ones since anyone can code but music and graphics tend to be more unique.
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by asking ex-Organizers/Founders for permission.
What if there are no such people? I can of course only talk for Traction, but there are no "Founders" or "Organizers" or any kind of fucking label bosses around. If one of my Traction friends wants to release a demo 20 years from now under that label, why would I either 1) care or 2) stop them from doing it? It would be just as much authentic Traction as something done by me or rale.
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How would you feel if someone starts a group with the same name as yours and starts releasing stuff? Would feel completely wrong, eh? And this is exactly what is happening for a long time now with
If it would be people with no connection whatsoever to Traction, I'd probably care just about enough to post on Pouet that these people are fakers. If it was someone I knew who had ties to Traction, I'd just be happy. More releases, yay!
Revision will get funny, with me releasing under all your groupnames.
Seriously, 27 years of being a demoscener and i am about to ragequit! I can´t stand all this utter bullshit anymore! :(
Baudsurfer gets what he wants, he destroys my group!
hArDy/Tristar^Red Sector Inc.^TRSI^Scoopex^Dual Crew^Shining^Dual Crew-Shining^DCS^Vision^Bonzai Bros^Bonzai^Savage^Phun^ZYX^The Iron Men^TIM just left the building.
Seriously, 27 years of being a demoscener and i am about to ragequit! I can´t stand all this utter bullshit anymore! :(
Baudsurfer gets what he wants, he destroys my group!
hArDy/Tristar^Red Sector Inc.^TRSI^Scoopex^Dual Crew^Shining^Dual Crew-Shining^DCS^Vision^Bonzai Bros^Bonzai^Savage^Phun^ZYX^The Iron Men^TIM just left the building.
I was going to say something, but then Preacher came along and already said everything needed saying!
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But assume I team up with Dune and Der Piipo
..
Well now that you've said it, that's all I want for Christmas!
Believe me, so do I. Unfortunately I don't think Santa will pay much attention :P
When me and Subi got back into the demoscene around 2010-ish, we we're thinking of resurrecting the net label Mono to release ProTracker modules. The case here though is it was run by h0l (aka simoniker) as a label. It was his baby, everything was curated to fit the feel and direction of the label. We're obviously still in touch so we asked him and he said no. Fair shout, we could totally understand that decision, it was his after all. Yes we we're both founder members but there was never any question over who the group belonged too.
If people are so damn obsessed about protecting their groups then they should've registered some trademarks. Assuming that everyone else has the same concept of reality / history / honesty / demoscene law is just ridiculous and if you do that you deserve everything you get.
Also: I, too, want this TractOrange-thing to become reality!
Also: I, too, want this TractOrange-thing to become reality!
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Believe me, so do I. Unfortunately I don't think Santa will pay much attention :P
Well Santa is in TRSI too, so...
new music genre: ghettoscene dramacore (one for deathy, I'm sure!)
110 bpm ghetto funk beat with vocal samples of sceners shouting "I want my group back!". It'll be on Beatport genres on the rise list next week!